Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

BreakofDawn wrote:Honestly tempted to a blog analysis of the Ben Kenobi vs Vader fight at this point...

Way ahead of you. ;)

BreakofDawn wrote:Cool, so his opinion on Ben and Vader is also irrelevant because it's contradicted by the film, screenplay and the 1976 novel.

If it were contradicted then yes it would be irrelevant.

BreakofDawn wrote:So to clarify:

1) The initial planning phase idea that Ben is somehow > or >> Vader applies but the initial ESB screenplay where Vader can TP attack Luke from across the galaxy (Mustafar to Dagobah) doesn't count.

The quote came about because Lucas and co. needed a plausible explanation as to why Vader didn't use telekinesis in ANH. The team quickly decided that Ben was simply more powerful, and that was that. They never changed to another explanation based on three separate sources citing the conversation and the conclusion. In contrast, Luke and co. toyed with unique storylines for ESB -- including galactic-ranging TP attacks -- but those ideas were scrapped. Ergo, they don't hold any lasting significance.

So, the one serves as final explanation to a lasting plot problem. The other was a possible plot point that got scrapped. See the difference?

2) Luke says Ben was > Vader but his belief that Vader could have stomped him doesn't count.

The significance of Luke's commentary is to show Lucas isn't coming out from left-field, not that Luke's opinion alone holds value. Either you're deliberately misinterpreting what I said to get in a "gotcha" point, or you quickly breezed through this discussion and felt the need to fling rhetorical questions.

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By the way @DarthAnt66 when shall we start our debate for Vader?

HellfireUnit wrote:By the way @DarthAnt66 when shall we start our debate for Vader?

Unfortunately, I'm working on actually six other Star Wars projects right now -- including a lovely KOTFE-centric discussion with BreakofDawn -- so let's hold that out for a bit, if that's OK with you.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:By the way @DarthAnt66 when shall we start our debate for Vader?

Unfortunately, I'm working on actually six other Star Wars projects right now -- including a lovely KOTFE-centric discussion with BreakofDawn -- so let's hold that out for a bit, if that's OK with you.

Of course. Currently I am moving to another city so it is also fine by me. I'll probably be avaiable after 30th of September but whenever you feel ready to start the debate, let me know.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:By the way @DarthAnt66 when shall we start our debate for Vader?

Unfortunately, I'm working on actually six other Star Wars projects right now -- including a lovely KOTFE-centric discussion with BreakofDawn -- so let's hold that out for a bit, if that's OK with you.

Feel free to ignore the KOTFE/KOTET discussion. Real life issues and events in the next few days/weeks mean I'm unlikely to respond for a while so it can wait if need be. I barely have time to sit down and reply to these threads anymore beyond quick, short posts.

Considering there are instances in the Prequels where force users could have used telekinesis to defeat their enemies, but never did. I don't think it's a stretch to say the opinion that Ben>Vader just because Vader wasn't shown using telekinesis on his opponent can be classed as outdated.

I'd like to point out that per the Jedi Path alter abilities like telepathy aren't focused on a terrific amount in training until a jedi becomes a jedi knight. The Jedi Path also states that alter abilities are the most difficult to master. So I doubt Luke was taught how to defend himself from TP after the few hours of training he had with Yoda. Any proficiency he has at that point in his life is instinctual. Which would logically make him susceptible to TP attacks from a fully trained Sith Lord Like Vader.