Raskta Lsu vs Ven Zallow

Greysentinel365 wrote:

mastercilghal wrote:That Malgus scales vastly beyond two jedi who could destroy buildings.

A sense of frustration that made him want to shout. His personal shuttle roared low over the scorched landscape. Below him, buildings and bodies smoldered in  the ruins of an Alderaani town. Around him, Imperial ships prowled the sky, flying  escort. He tried to unknot his fists, failed. He wanted-  The presence of a light-side Force user bumped up against his Force sensitivity, a  sudden flare in his perception. He looked down and out the viewport. He saw nothing but charred ruins, rubbled buildings, burnt out vehicles. He pinched the  comlink he wore.

- The Third Lesson

1. This is a town. Not a city or a major population centre. So I see no reason for there to be any buildings of significant note in terms of size.

There's no such thing as small buildings on Alderaan in SWTOR.

Greysentinel365 wrote:2. Of the buildings that are there, they're mostly all rubble and already collapsed. So it's not like the Jedi was tearing down buildings. He was likely only tilting structures that were barely standing as is.

That's not the real feat, it's that Malgus who literally needs surgery to live. (In fact, Satele's senses made her believe that he is literally dying. More than that, when he's actually on the way to be put in a kolto tank to survive, is when he jumps off the ship to go find the Jedi in question.) Tanks having it collapse on him, and then blasts the mound of rubble off of himself before he kills said Jedi.

Greysentinel365 wrote:3. Malgus is only described to be below "several tonnes" of rubble.

several
/ˈsɛv(ə)r(ə)l/
determiner & pronoun
more than two but not many.

Further lending credence to the lack of material surrounding him.

Which given the circumstances is still incredible.

Greysentinel365 wrote:4. There was only one Jedi that collapsed buildings. The other merely just hid. This is the one that Malgus ragdolled. One who was hiding, suppressing his force power and was taken by surprise. The other Malgus only beat in a saber duel after he collapsed said buildings.It's worth noting that the Jedi was quite capable of stalemating Malgus.

Malgus’s lightsaber traced glittering red arcs through the air. He spun, slashed,  stabbed, pushing the Jedi backwards. But always the Jedi parried. He seemed to be biding his time. He was baiting him, Malgus realized. Feigning weakness.

- The Third Lesson

Yeah, in a duel. Before Malgus annihilates him.

Greysentinel365 wrote:So no Hope Malgus does not vastly scale above "building busters". He can roughly stalemate a jedi who can only move a few tonnes of rubble when rage amped by injuries and humiliation.

I'm wondering how the hell you think a dying Malgus is some rage-amped beast outperforming himself.

Greysentinel365 wrote:Nevermind that Deceived Malgus (who is Zallows only feat) best speed feet is moving at blur speed. Which shock horror he replicates here.

He closed the distance between them rapidly. The red line of Malgus’s lightsaber moved so quickly it blurred into a red smear.

- The Third Lesson

She and Darth Malgus bounded across the ruins of the Temple, their blades flashing, locking, the speed of their duel so fast Zeerid could barely follow their movement.

Deceived

So injury and rage amped Hope Malgus = Deceived Malgus </= Zallow in speed.

He was literally beating a Leneer who was enraged and bloodlusted. Who can literally percieve and react to FTL as if it is slow-motion in a regular, much weaker state.

Greysentinel365 wrote:Though this throws into doubt how much if at all Malgus grew in between the two events at all. So we can more accurately say:

"Malgus, when amped by injuries and rage might scale above a jedi who can tilt over bombed and already ruined buildings"

But even that's in doubt when we consider Malgus' inability to hold down a slowly, vertically rising dropship in Decieved. To be clear the class of dropship he held was capable of holding 20 men at max. The Clone dropships are capable of holding 30 and they're quite small. So there is even counter evidence for his TK specifically increasing.

Woo

It's not a dropship. It's a freighter. This is made emphatically clear.

Cancer debunked.

When Aryn was perceiving time at a dilated manner it was while she fell deeply into a meditative effort which was described as "taxing her". She couldn't keep up what she was doing for long, never mind produce it in the heat of a fight.

Aryn did not bother to respond. She dwelled in the Force, floated in and on the warm network of lines that connected all things, one to another. Her consciousness expanded to see and feel everything near her. She focused on her perception of the passage of time, first on how it felt as she moved through it, then on spreading it, stretching it, until she could linger in a millisecond as if it were a moment, then a minute. To Zeerid it would appear that she were a blur of motion, existing simultaneously in multiple places. To her, it felt as if the universe around her had stilled. She smiled, seeing the moments that hung before her, each millisecond a long moment in which she could think, in which she could act. The effort taxed her, and she knew she could not maintain it for long.

The blue disappeared in favor of the midnight of space, and she returned to normal perception.
“Engaging thrusters,” Zeerid said. “Well done, Aryn.”
Sweat soaked her robes, pasted them to her body. She felt as if she had not slept in days.

Yeah. You're not getting it. Aryn bloodlusted and Aryn in her normal state is much larger than that difference would be. You've pointed out nothing of significance. She is almost an equal for him whilst bloodlusted and enraged. But in the second confrontation, without that, she gets almost casually stomped.

She wasn't in a normal state either way, so your guess is as good as mine which one makes more of a difference. That said, she was specifically enhancing her speed perceptions in the feat you cited, moreso than any other attribute, while she does various duties around the ship and then specifically focuses on the environment to help with escaping. The physical activities she was engaged in were relatively easygoing (pushing a few buttons around a cockpit), but after a short time she was so taxed that she felt she hadn't slept in two days, and sweat drenched her entire body.

Whereas in a lightsaber duel, you aren't focusing nearly as heavily in one or a few areas of augmentation, rather your attention, will and power is dispersed among a multitude of areas, including strength, speed, balance and agility, precognition, masking your next move from your opponent, maintaining Force shields, soaking the weight of your opponent's blows, etc. And yet she isn't drenched in sweat and seemingly sleep-deprived from the effort of fighting Malgus after a few seconds. Jedi have been seen sparring extremely intensely for hours at a time, so the idea that Leneer was operating at anywhere near her normal fighting level when her perception of the world was so enhanced is completely illogical. Her perceptions were far more greatly enhanced and focused upon during this feat than at any other time.

Zallow.

Naw, Raskta wins. Grey convinced me.

ILS wrote:She wasn't in a normal state either way, so your guess is as good as mine which one makes more of a difference. That said, she was specifically enhancing her speed perceptions in the feat you cited, moreso than any other attribute, while she does various duties around the ship and then specifically focuses on the environment to help with escaping. The physical activities she was engaged in were relatively easygoing (pushing a few buttons around a cockpit), but after a short time she was so taxed that she felt she hadn't slept in two days, and sweat drenched her entire body.

Whereas in a lightsaber duel, you aren't focusing nearly as heavily in one or a few areas of augmentation, rather your attention, will and power is dispersed among a multitude of areas, including strength, speed, balance and agility, precognition, masking your next move from your opponent, maintaining Force shields, soaking the weight of your opponent's blows, etc. And yet she isn't drenched in sweat and seemingly sleep-deprived from the effort of fighting Malgus after a few seconds. Jedi have been seen sparring extremely intensely for hours at a time, so the idea that Leneer was operating at anywhere near her normal fighting level when her perception of the world was so enhanced is completely illogical. Her perceptions were far more greatly enhanced and focused upon during this feat than at any other time.

To go from being a nigh-equal to a far more serious Malgus to getting stomped nigh-casually by him in a much less serious state is an absolutely monumental difference.

Whilst it did exhaust her reserves, in her second fight with Malgus she isn't doing any better in terms of reserves before she gets knocked clean out. Which only really proves how enormously overachieving Leneer really was in that first fight.

So even if she is not fighting Malgus with the literal ability to percieve high-level FTL as a slow-motion crawl, even half that speed is obviously far better than what Grey was claiming to be Malgus' best speed feat.

ILS wrote:Naw, Raskta wins. Grey convinced me.

Almost everything he said was wrong and missing context.

Can someone explain why Malgus's Force feats are at all relevant here? The only telekinetic exchange between Malgus and Zallow in their duel IIRC was Malgus hurling Zallow on his ass.

LadyKulvax wrote:

ILS wrote:She wasn't in a normal state either way, so your guess is as good as mine which one makes more of a difference. That said, she was specifically enhancing her speed perceptions in the feat you cited, moreso than any other attribute, while she does various duties around the ship and then specifically focuses on the environment to help with escaping. The physical activities she was engaged in were relatively easygoing (pushing a few buttons around a cockpit), but after a short time she was so taxed that she felt she hadn't slept in two days, and sweat drenched her entire body.

Whereas in a lightsaber duel, you aren't focusing nearly as heavily in one or a few areas of augmentation, rather your attention, will and power is dispersed among a multitude of areas, including strength, speed, balance and agility, precognition, masking your next move from your opponent, maintaining Force shields, soaking the weight of your opponent's blows, etc. And yet she isn't drenched in sweat and seemingly sleep-deprived from the effort of fighting Malgus after a few seconds. Jedi have been seen sparring extremely intensely for hours at a time, so the idea that Leneer was operating at anywhere near her normal fighting level when her perception of the world was so enhanced is completely illogical. Her perceptions were far more greatly enhanced and focused upon during this feat than at any other time.

To go from being a nigh-equal to a far more serious Malgus to getting stomped nigh-casually by him in a much less serious state is an absolutely monumental difference.

Whilst it did exhaust her reserves, in her second fight with Malgus she isn't doing any better in terms of reserves before she gets knocked clean out. Which only really proves how enormously overachieving Leneer really was in that first fight.

So even if she is not fighting Malgus with the literal ability to percieve high-level FTL as a slow-motion crawl, even half that speed is obviously far better than what Grey was claiming to be Malgus' best speed feat.

Proof for any of this?

Besides, her perceptions being very fast actually says nothing about how fast she can move her limbs, or how fast Malgus has to be to intercept her attacks. Hence... perception.

Raskta cuts Zallow to ribbons. Anyone near Orbalisk Bane in sabers would casually speedblitz him and Malgus. Zallow is probably Sirak level.

I mean, really, let's see who Raskta scales over.

1. KORRIBAN SITH STUDENT / KIEL CHARNY: Each student at the Korriban academy had the potential to become a full Sith Master in the Brotherhood of Darkness. Most had been training every since childhood with Sith Master-tier potential, and for many it took years to even get accepted into the Korriban academy (link). This would mean they had been studying in one of the other academies, and since their potential set them apart, they’re likely superior to the Sith marauders, assassins and adepts, each of whom have their own minor accolades. The Korriban apprentices were also noted to stronger than half the Dark Lords on Ruusan (link). / Kiel Charny was noted to be a “champion” among the Jedi, listed alongside Lord Hoth, and “a true warrior who epitomized the Jedi ideal” (link).
   
2. GITHANY: During her stay in the Korriban academy, Githany developed a reputation for “crushing” her opponents in the dueling ring (link), meaning she would’ve repeatedly stomped the above students there. She also quickly defeated Kiel Charny when they fought (link). One might dismiss her victory to be the result of Charny’s lack of willingness to fight, but that would only hinder his offence, not defence, and doesn’t excuse his swift loss. Githany’s unorthodox whip also wouldn’t have factored in much, as the two had trained together in their youth as Jedi (link), and Charny would’ve undoubtedly been exposed to the weapon’s intricacies and possibly even sparred against her. It might have been more of a deciding factor in Githany’s victory over the other apprentices, but most would have studied her fights and training prior to engaging her in the ring, so they wouldn’t have been completely taken off-guard. Regardless, Githany’s solid superiority to both the other students and Kiel Charny should be clear.
   
3. SIRAK: Sirak was repeatedly noted to be the Korriban academy’s top apprentice (link). When Githany proposed to Bane that she would face Sirak in the ring in hopes of manipulating him, he remarked that Sirak would destroy her, and Githany herself admitted she would lose (link). On top of that, he had never lost a match, cementing his superiority to the other students (link), and he could seamlessly shift between lightsaber forms mid-sequence and has been witnessed utilizing Form VII, making him canonically a master of all the previous forms and a “high-level master of multiple Forms” (link).
   
4. BANE: When he fought Sirak for the second time, Bane had improved immensely. His skill was such that he was able to instantly identify mistakes in Sirak’s technique and could have stomped him in a few moves. He however decided to prolong the engagement and toy with his opponent, demonstrating his vast superiority nonetheless (link).
   
5. LORD KAS’IM: In the opening exchanges of his duel with Bane, Kas’im very nearly eviscerates his opponent. He remarks with surprise that Bane had improved since they had last dueled, implying that Bane prior to unlocking the secrets of Darth Revan’s holocron and growing more powerful as a result would not have survived (link). This means that Kas’im could have speedblitzed the same Bane who toyed with and could have stomped Sirak in a few moves.
   
6. DARTH BANE (PATH OF DESTRUCTION): As their duel continues, it becomes clear that Kas’im simply cannot beat Bane due to the latter being too strong in the Force (link). Kas’im only gains the upper hand when he switched to a weapon type Bane had absolutely no experience with or against, theoretical nor practical. But in a conventional fight where the neither is unfairly disadvantaged, Bane is the superior swordsman.
   
7. DARTH BANE (RULE OF TWO): The orbalisks Bane was encrusted with pumped chemicals into his system, boosting his physical prowess to the point that he felt stronger than ever and his reflexes were quicker. And this is ignoring the fact that he could further increase his command of the Force with through the orbalisks, which would then feed his Force augmentation and speed even more (link).
   

Zallow's best feat besides fighting Malgus is speedblitzing the Sith Empire's "strongest Sith Warriors" - an accolade somewhat analogous to those given to the Korriban students and Kiel Charny, although I would still peg the latter two above the former. Zallow was also noted to be Malgus' most famous kill, and Gnost-Dural listed him alongside Kao Cen Darach as the most "distinguished" among Malgus' kills, so the two probably share some degree of parity, with Zallow perhaps being somewhat better. Darach was capable of holding off the combined might of Lord Vindican and apprentice Malgus, killing Vindican and only losing to Malgus after he was thoroughly exhausted. "Even before the Great War, Malgus was widely regarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire," which is again, analogous to the hype given to the Korriban students and Kiel Charny, and I wouldn't make much of his feat of besting Satele considering she was a Padawan of little repute at that time. If we scale Zallow from Deceived Malgus, he gets the feats of beating Hope Satele who could speedblitz Sith without even a single accolade, putting them significantly below Charny and the Korriban students; and being a match for a Jedi of unknown caliber on Alderaan.

All in all, I see nothing in Zallow that inspires me to believe he could take even Sirak. If we're generous to him and emphasize the advantage Githany's whip would have given her over Charny and the other students, and dismiss Bane's claim of Sirak "destroying" her as hyperbole, then maybe, but I don't see it. He sure as hell isn't beating trainee Bane, since as Grey pointed out, he moved faster than the Korriban students could perceive, while Malgus' movements were perceptible - barely, but still perceptible - to a non-Force user. And Kas'im would speedblitz trainee Bane, only to get thoroughly bested by orbalisk Bane.

And let's now see how Raskta did against orbalisk Bane:

As they burst into the room a man who could only have been Darth Bane charged recklessly toward them. In any other instance the move would have spelled a quick end to the encounter, as Raskta raced ahead of Farfalla to carve the Sith to pieces.

Raska's blue blades flickered too quickly for the eye to see, neutralizing her enemy's initial, wild attack then landing half a dozen lethal blows to his chest and abdomen. But instead of toppling, the big man kept coming, never even breaking stride. He would have plowed straight into Raskta, trampling her under his heavy boots, had she not cartwheeled to the side at the last possible instant.

Bane never stopped, his momentum carrying him straight toward Farfalla. The Jedi Master had a moment to register the strange armor coat of hard, shiny shells he wore beneath his clothes. Then he, too, leapt to the side to avoid being crushed, surviving only because his reflexes were heightened by Worror's power.

Raskta was already back on her feet and flying through the air toward him. Bane spun and threw a wave of invisible dark side power at her. A Weapons Master was not skilled at defending against enemy Force attacks. The impact of the wave would have plastered her against the wall and crushed her had Farfalla not thrown up a shield to protect the Echani. Even so her muscular body was plucked from the air and hurtled backward, though she twisted and turned so she landed on her feet.

Farfalla saw the Sith Lord turn toward him, sensing the intervention that had saved Raskta's life. Bane unleashed a barrage of Sith lightning, gathering and releasing his power at the speed of thought. The Jedi threw up a Force barrier to shield himself, but the electricity tore right through it and arced toward him. Then suddenly Raskta was there to save his life, repaying a debt that was only a few seconds old as she threw herself in front of him. Fueled by Worror's battle meditation, she switched styles seamlessly, and her arms and blades became a blur as they carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark side energy.

Their enemy fell upon them again, following up the lightning with pure aggression. Raskta rushed ahead of Farfalla to meet this second charge. She crouched low, viciously slashing at his thighs and calves, attempting to leave their opponent crawling legless on the floor. Her blades carved through his boots and sliced wide gashes in his pants, only to reveal more of the chitinous shells.

Bane brought his lightsaber down at the Echani, who crossed her blades into an X, attempting to block and trap her opponent's weapon at the point of intersection. But the Sith's move was only a feint meant to distract her, and at the last instant he pulled his weapon back and swung an elbow around to catch her in the ribs. The contact lifted her off her feet and sent her sprawling. Then he was past her, and bearing down on Farfalla.

The Jedi Master dropped into an elegant defensive stance to meet the charge.

"The handle!" Raskta gasped as she scrambled to her feet.

The warning caused Farfalla to notice the hook-handled lightsaber of his enemy, and the unusual grip it required. This would alter the nature of his attacks, causing them to come in from odd and unfamiliar angles. In the regimented and hyperprecise world of Jedi-Sith lightsaber duels, it transformed his style into something unique and unexpected.

Valenthyne recognized, processed, and reacted to this information in a fraction of a second, allowing him to adjust his own weapon's course just enough to block a strike that otherwise would have slipped along the edge of his blade and taken his arm off at the elbow. Even so, the strength behind the attack tore Farfalla's golden blade from his grip, sending his lightsaber skittering across the floor. Unarmed and helpless before his enemy, he was saved by Raskta.

Knowing that her lightsabers couldn't penetrate Bane's armor, she slid in from behind and scissor-kicked his legs out from under him. He toppled over backward, turning his fall into a roll that ended with him back on his feet. However, the distraction allowed Farfalla to look over and reach out with the Force, calling his weapon back into his hand.

He spun back to the fight to see that the Echani Weapons Master had taken the offensive, sending quick flicks of her blue blades toward Bane's unprotected face - the only spot on his body seemingly not covered by the impenetrable shells. Remarkably, Bane was giving ground.

"Stay back!" she shouted at Farfalla. "You'll just get in the way."

Farfalla did as he was told, gathering the energies of the light side to throw up another protective Force barrier should Bane try to unleash his dark side powers against the Echani.

She seemed to be everywhere at once - in front of Bane, beside him, behind him, circling low, leaping to come in high, deflecting his blade with one of her own then stabbing three quick times in succession at his eyes. The big man's head ducked and bobbed, twisting and turning to avoid her blows as he tried to mount a counteroffensive.

Raskta's mastery of her blades was unparalleled, but even with her talents augmented by Worror's battle meditation she wasn't able to land a telling blow on such a small target through Bane's defenses. Still, the ferocity of her new strategy had turned the momentum in her favor ... or so Farfalla thought.

Bane continued his retreat, circling away from Raskta's blades, then suddenly turned and ran straight toward the unarmed Ithorian standing just inside the door of the room.

Battle meditation required Master Worror's complete focus; there was no chance for him to mount any type of defense. If Bane cut him down, the others would lose the only advantage that gave them any chance of surviving the encounter.

Farfalla released the power he'd been gathering in a single concentrated burst. Bane was suddenly encased in a shimmering stasis field of light-side energy, freezing him where he stood. But his command of the dark side was too powerful for it to hold him for more than a split second. The shimmering field exploded into fragments as the Dark Lord broke free, though the momentary delay had allowed the Echani to place herself between the Ithorian and the Sith.

Raskta's blades hummed and sang as she engaged him again, determined to keep him from reaching Master Worror at all costs.


Immediately Raskta gets licks in on Bane, and while the knowledge his orbalisk armor would protect him probably made Bane careless, this is still hardly something a person whom Bane could speedblitz could manage. And later on she goes toe-to-toe with Bane's bladework by herself, dancing circles around him and forcing him to give ground. Again, far beyond the abilities of someone Bane would blitz - someone like Zallow.

As to the claims she was aided by Farfalla, Raskta notes that he was just getting in the way, and she does better without his intervention. And yes, she was amplified by Worror's battle meditation, but Bane was likewise augmented by the dark side nexi of Tython and Belia Darzu's fortress.

Bane didn't know if the legend was true, but even if it was, it merely proved the superiority of the dark side and its inevitable conquest of the light. For though the followers of Ashla had supposedly defeated the followers of Boga, the dark side had prevailed in the end. Tython, revered by many as the birthplace of the Jedi Order itself, was now a bastion of dark side power, and the location of Belia Darzu's hidden fortress.

[…]

Bane stepped forward, wary and watching for any trick or trap that might await him. He could feel the power of the dark side in this place, but he detected no immediate threats to his person, and he proceeded cautiously.

Using glow rods to light his way, he explored the stronghold room by room, stirring up dust that had lain undisturbed for centuries. It was primarily a military base, the majority of the space taken up with the barracks and mess halls necessary to house and provide for an army of followers. But the rooms were deserted. Not even the vermin and insects one would expect in an abandoned building prowled the halls, though whether they were kept at bay by the dark side energy permeating the air or by some unknown means he couldn't say.

[…]

Near the back of the building he came upon a narrow set of stairs leading down to the underground levels. One thing Hetton's research had not provided was a map of the stronghold's interior, but he could feel the power emanating from beneath him. There was little doubt that the source of the dark side energies hanging like smoke in the air of every room and hallway of the fortress was located at the bottom of the steps. It was here, Bane knew, that he would find Belia's inner sanctum.

He crept down the stairs. At the bottom was another long, narrow hall, and at the end of this corridor was a small, archaic wooden door. A sliver of pale fluorescent light shone out from beneath. Unlike the floor above, Bane realized, generators were still providing power to the room beyond - another sign that it was of critical importance.

Bane approached the door, pausing at the threshold. He was unable to get any sense of what awaited him on the other side; his Force awareness was overwhelmed by a great concentration of dark side power. Taking a deep breath, he gently pushed open the door and stared in fascinated horror.


So yeah, Raskta destroys Ven in an utter mismatch.

Really must start to consume TOR material. Most of it is a lot less impressive than I thought

@Azronger

Minor point but Raskta wasn't legitimately forcing Bane on the defensive in the passage preceding his dash towards Worror. Bane was maneuvering himself towards Worror hence the line "or so Farfalla thought". It's only when all three are attacking unison is Bane finally forced on the defensive :

"Together the three of them held the Sith Lord at bay: Farfalla on the left flank, Johun on the right, and Raskta in the center. Between blocks and parries they cut and stabbed at his face, their combined efforts finally forcing their enemy into a defensive stance."

Finally on the defensive proves Rasta hadn't truly the upper hand in the previous passage. This doesn't diminish the fact that she with Farfarlla's aid could legitimately contend with him however so I wouldn't mark it against her.

Azronger wrote:Raskta cuts Zallow to ribbons. Anyone near Orbalisk Bane in sabers would casually speedblitz him and Malgus. Zallow is probably Sirak level.

Except Lsu was amped by battle meditation and had other jedi at her aid who were also amped , and yet she still lost to him
Orbalisk Bane is >>>Raskta Lsu

I like how being a student in the Korriban academy is being compared to being among the 50 most powerful Sith warriors in the entire Empire. (There are literally stated to be 'millions' of 'the most powerful' Sith in SWTOR, who the Wrath is chosen from in Act II.) The accolades aren't even close to comparable. The 50 most powerful warriors include the likes of Malgus, Praven and Adraas. They're laughably beyond a Korriban academy student of any era.

The fact that even Lana Beniko has a 'lightning fast' speed feat makes it pretty obvious that TOR has no issues with speed. Especially given how average Treaty of Coruscant Lana really is next to the likes of Malgus and Zallow:

An Unexpected Ally wrote:As detailed in an incident report, a skirmish on Hoth between Republic and Imperial forces during the Treaty of Coruscant ended abruptly when an unidentified female Sith Lord leapt into the midst of the battle, demanding an immediate ceasefire-and an explanation for the fight. When an Imperial officer suggested she wouldn’t understand to nuances of military conflict, he lost his right hand to a lightning-fast lightsaber strike.

Zallow wins. These pro-Lsu arguments get worse by the page.

There's no such thing as small buildings on Alderaan in SWTOR.

That's a broad and unsubstantiated statement.

That's not the real feat, it's that Malgus who literally needs surgery to live. (In fact, Satele's senses made her believe that he is literally dying. More than that, when he's actually on the way to be put in a kolto tank to survive, is when he jumps off the ship to go find the Jedi in question.) Tanks having it collapse on him, and then blasts the mound of rubble off of himself before he kills said Jedi.

Long term yes. But at the time Malgus was perfectly stable. Being sustained by his hate. The Third Lesson makes clear that the injuries didn't slow Malgus. He doesn't even feel them.

He clenched his fists so hard it made his fingers ache. His breathing sounded like a rasp over wood. His skin stung from burns. A Republic commando had exploded a grenade in his face, and combat with a Jedi witch had damaged his lungs. Lacerations and contusions made a grim mosaic on his flesh.  But he felt no pain. He felt only anger. Hate.

- The Third Lesson

No mention is made in the third lesson of Malgus' injuries slowing him the slightest. If anything it's consistently noted he is drawing on them.

I'm wondering how the hell you think a dying Malgus is some rage-amped beast outperforming himself.

If only I'd posted a quote proving it.

It's not a dropship. It's a freighter. This is made emphatically clear.

I agree. The text makes the reality emphatically clear

He felt a tightness in his mind, the string of his power being drawn taut, stretching, stretching. He would not release the ship. Its thrusters began to whine. He held it, teeth gritted, sweat soaking his body, his breath a dry rattle through his respirator.

And then the string snapped and the ship flew free, lifting clear of the roof doors.

He roared his rage as the ship’s engines fired and it headed for the heavens. Seething, he activated his wrist chrono.

“Jard, the spicerunner’s drop ship has just left the Liston Spaceport. Eleena may be aboard. Secure it with a tractor beam and detain everyone aboard—”

- Deceived

I think the book did indeed make it emphatically clear. It's a dropship.

Greysentinel365 wrote:

There's no such thing as small buildings on Alderaan in SWTOR.

That's a broad and unsubstantiated statement.

Yeah, it's almost as if the population of Alderaan in SWTOR is entirely made up of a caste of Houses. All of whom live in palaces and multi-story towers.

Greysentinel365 wrote:

That's not the real feat, it's that Malgus who literally needs surgery to live. (In fact, Satele's senses made her believe that he is literally dying. More than that, when he's actually on the way to be put in a kolto tank to survive, is when he jumps off the ship to go find the Jedi in question.) Tanks having it collapse on him, and then blasts the mound of rubble off of himself before he kills said Jedi.

Long term yes. But at the time Malgus was perfectly stable. Being sustained by his hate. The Third Lesson makes clear that the injuries didn't slow Malgus. He doesn't even feel them.

He clenched his fists so hard it made his fingers ache. His breathing sounded like a rasp over wood. His skin stung from burns. A Republic commando had exploded a grenade in his face, and combat with a Jedi witch had damaged his lungs. Lacerations and contusions made a grim mosaic on his flesh. But he felt no pain. He felt only anger. Hate.

- The Third Lesson

No mention is made in the third lesson of Malgus' injuries slowing him the slightest. If anything it's consistently noted he is drawing on them.

Which is entirely in keeping with rage, he doesn't feel it because he's stubborn and pissed off. That doesn't mean he isn't almost dead. This is ridiculous.

Greysentinel365 wrote:

I'm wondering how the hell you think a dying Malgus is some rage-amped beast outperforming himself.

If only I'd posted a quote proving it.

You mean proving nothing but the obvious?

Greysentinel365 wrote:

It's not a dropship. It's a freighter. This is made emphatically clear.

I agree. The text makes the reality emphatically clear

He felt a tightness in his mind, the string of his power being drawn taut, stretching, stretching. He would not release the ship. Its thrusters began to whine. He held it, teeth gritted, sweat soaking his body, his breath a dry rattle through his respirator.

And then the string snapped and the ship flew free, lifting clear of the roof doors.

He roared his rage as the ship’s engines fired and it headed for the heavens. Seething, he activated his wrist chrono.

“Jard, the spicerunner’s drop ship has just left the Liston Spaceport. Eleena may be aboard. Secure it with a tractor beam and detain everyone aboard—”

- Deceived

I think the book did indeed make it emphatically clear. It's a dropship.

It's a D29-class 'Dragonfly' Imperial Assault Dropship. Which are specifically designed for immense engine and thruster power to get through blockades. Not unlike freighters. Your attempt at class designations is folly. He matched the full thruster power to such a degree the ship 'whined', for so long that his body was covered in sweat. It's an absolutely immense feat.

But nice to see people have conceded on his ability to shatter Republic forts by himself. Making progress.

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/an-unexpected-ally/162434/

A codex entry using "lightning-fast" as a form of hyperbole...

Can we ground zero this thread yet?

LMAO. Your rebuttals get weaker by the post. So the Venamis 'lightning' speed feat is fine but when it's a TOR character then it's hyperbolic?

There's a ton of other speed feats out there for SWTOR, your ignorance of them isn't really what is important.

ROT Bane speedblitzing Malgus is disgraceful cancer and anyone who supports it should an hero.

Watching Grey slaughter AP is mad satisfying tbh.

Nice fan-fic, please continue.

Tis not fanfic, you must be mixing up my account of this debate and your posts themselves.

If by this thread you mean Azronger, ILS and Grey having to literally team up on me to actually attempt to win this debate, then sure.

Nah, you were dead in the water after Grey's first post, Az and ILS just came in to finish the job. At least you admit you were getting gang raped though.